nameeta
ocvnewevangelisation.blogspot.com/ x
nameeta2010@gmail.com
223.186.110.3
Submitted on 2011/11/15 at 6:16 pm
Hi,
I’ve been reading your blog regularly and am happy to see your concern for the church. However since the last few days I’ve started feeling concerned about the direction in which you are moving. Let me use this opportunity to share what I see , hoping it will be of some benefit to you along the way.
As Mumbailaity and Association of Conserned Catholics you seem to be gifted with a charism of the Holy Spirit which is still developing in the early stages. Charisms are always for the growth of the community. You seem to be in the learning curve and will make mistakes till you learn your area of focus.
Recently you wrote about your annual general body meeting where you decided your goal for the next one year. I do not see it in the content posted regularly on the blog. Instead you seem to be scattering your energies on anything and everything that seems to be going wrong with the administration of the church according to your personal or anyone’s viewpoint. I understand you want to promote freedom of expression so you publish a wide range of topics. However this approach has its drawbacks.
What is happening is that you are passing judgements and making condemnations in areas which are perhaps not your expertise . e. g. inculturation. As a convert from Hinduism who has respect for the Indian culture inspite of being strictly faithful to the teachings of the catholic church , I personally know how difficult it is for people of non-christian faith to appreciate the Christian faith due to its foreign garb . As Catholics we all have a hierarchy of truths which are expressed in the ‘I Believe’. These are central to the faith whereas ‘kneeling’ or ‘standing’ while receiving Holy Communion is not central to the faith.
It is nice to express one’s opinion in the matter of Inculturation. But I think Mumbailaity is scattering energies on too many issues and losing focus . There are people of different age groups and cultures in Mumbai. Each group has their own opinions over the small matters to big problems in the administration. If the Cardinal , Bishops and Clergy are ‘harrassed’ by each group with different opinions over just everything in the Church , they will become frustrated and fall sick. It is true there are serious issues which need attention .e.g. the property-scams, sexual abuse by clergy etc. I think Mumbailaity needs to keep its focus on these .
By keeping your focus, both you and the Hierarchy will be able perhaps to work together to resolve issues. Even the Laity of different sub-groups will support you. Disputes on Peripheral matters such as inculturation, inter-religious dialogue etc. will only divide the church more and more and you may lose credibility due to this both in the eyes of the Hierarchy and the Laity.
Then there are issues like clerical arrogance which have been in the church since centuries. You cannot change the clergy in one day or one year. It will happen gradually. Trust in the Holy Spirit to do that.
It is my sincere request that you will spend some regular time in personal prayer so that you maintain your focus on one or two major issues at a time. This will help you to define your charism and who knows – God may have chosen you to be the pioneers of something which will become a light to other dioceses in India and around the world to find answers to the problem of property-scams and sexual abuse by clergy.
Wish you all the best and God Bless You all!
Nameeta.
THE LAITYTUDE 
Dear Nameeta, I think you believe nuns and priests are the chosen ones.I have read your inputs some time back. If these people are the “chosen ones” than is heaven only with your people, what happens to us laity, are we sent to hell or forgotten?
Yes there are a lot of issues and the community could take up one issue each than the burden of all issues would not fall on one group like ours. In fact we encourage laity to join in to made them aware of the alleged corruption in the administration of our Catholic Church. Have you heard of the stolen jewels of Our Blessed Mother from a church at Santa Cruz Mumbai, have you heard of a priest trying to sell off a 400 year old wooden altar to an overseas antique dealer, and mind you the altar is blessed.Have you heard of a bishop who has fathered a child from a nun and the boy child was dumped in a orphanage and the nun now ovresees a community kitchen. I would like to meet you and a few of your ” chosen ones” as you put to have an open debate with a team of like minded practicing laity. Of course the debate will be recorded, and made public to the media and CD given off free of charge to those interested. Are you aware that as a group of concerned catholics we have approached our Dear cardinal Oswald Gracias to try resolve issues, yet he prefers to meet each one on a individual basis. Are you aware of Church property,assets being sold off without following standard practices and these properties are sold off and non catholics occupy flats once the property is developed, where are the catholics and who has reaped the benefit from the money received from the same. Are you aware that homes built for underpriviliged catholics are being locked by the tenants and kept for real estate price rise for profit.here again the Church administration is doing nothing.
Are you aware that church flats are being subleted for high profits ( rent to Church Rs 180, rented out at Rs 3000 Church got nothing.Deal done by the church administrator and the local parish priest.
May be I have said too much for the moment, However while I respect your views, please accept my offer for a open debate on these issues covered by the media.
It would also be interesting to get the head admistration of the Church involved and selected Govt depts.
I hope you will be keen to accept this offer
Thank you.
“As Catholics we all have a hierarchy of truths which are expressed in the ‘I Believe’.”
I am not sure if there’s an hierarchy in the I Believe. The Holy Trinity is not a hierarchy but a Communion of Divine Love.
This inclination to see and separate the issues into big and small matters has surfaced in this review of the working of the Holy Spirit today.
While it is true that there must be a focus on serious issues but the ‘peripheral’ issues also need to be located in the overall development of this Crisis.
Finally it is not small or big issues that ought to be resolved but it is “the Loss of Faith” that is driving each of these issues to its logical end that needs to be filtered and purified. And this can be done only if the source of this contamination is scientifically analyzed and treated without condemning anyone.
God Bless you too!
I greatly marvel the article by Nameeta appearing in the ML blog site on November 16, 2011 and her attempt for a positive outlook to things. This article only shows the state of the mindset of the laity and how it is trained to consider Liturgical abuse as trivial and with cogent arguments, yet false. Only the Bishops could think like you Nameeta or is it the mindset of the Bishops that you are communicating through this article. To say that the laity and the readers of Mumbai laititude can’t think and they should focus only on administrative matters and abuse matters is to demote the church into backwardness.
What reasoning’s to in order to support Liturgical abuse! You need to understand what inculturation is all about before you step out and use your so called “charism of the Holy Spirit” to fool the readers of Mumbai Laititude.
The scope of inculturation is in the area of pre-evangelization and in the proclamation of the Gospel and has very little value in the post evangelized church. The post evangelized church follows the norm set by it and is NOT supposed to play around with its doctrine. What the ML has quoted is canon Law to support its stance and not Mills and Boons.
Who finds it difficult to appreciate the Catholic faith and who is that considers it as foreign? Please don’t fool us that by saying that kneeling will be looked upon as foreign and standing and receiving the Eucharist will be considered as Indian. In fact the Indian mind or any other mind understands and reads reverence better in whatever forms it is dished out.
If you cannot appreciate the goodness of the Christian faith in whatever forms it may come then I doubt your motive for conversion and the people who were instrumental in your conversion. A person in love with Christ will appreciate the beauty of what Christ has to give them through the church. Just as a Man in love would appreciate the beauty of his wife’s culture and respect it. This does not mean that he will assimilate what is evil in that culture.
Are you saying that we assimilate Indian hypocritical moral standards and adapt to caste system and light diyas to the elephant gods in the name of inculturation and practice yoga and go for vipassana and reject sound spirituality’s?
Are you saying that inculturation, inter-religious dialogue etc. are Disputes on Peripheral matters in comparison to the administrative matters of property? You mean, we the laity swallow up whatever nonsense that goes on in the name of dialogue and inculturation.
You mean to say we the laity should allow the Bishops to abuse their office of teaching sound doctrine and even correcting it?
If the Bishops were right in what they were doing then Cardinal Levada of the SCDF would not have come to India to pull up the Indian Bishops. If you are saying that these are matters to be handled by the Bishops and. may be, along with exceptional persons like YOU then there would not have been such aberrations in the church of God. Take for example the New Community Bible and Yoga in the church to mention only two out of the many aberrations in the Church in Mumbai.
It would be interesting to know why Bp. Agnelo as Rector is back in the seminary when he himself holds on to false doctrine. And how come the he has been appointed to head the CBCI doctrinal commission?
It was only the laity that was protesting while the Bishops were giving their stamp of approvals and even proclaiming the New Community Bible full of falsity. Of course of know of priests too but they are always silenced in the name of obedience or if they follow their conscience then they are persecuted or framed. They abused their positions as Bishops and got the official media to suppress any forms of protest and silence the laity? Are you their official mouth piece now?
If they are right then why have they not introduced the same version of the NCB again? Go back to the Examiners and see how the Bishops and their mouthpiece the examiner acted to silence the legitimate voice of the laity- SHAME ! There is one Mr. Michael Prabhu who has documented at least 20 such letters by the protesting laity which has not been published and other evidences. You can find it on his website: http://www.ephesians-511.net/reports.htm
If clerical arrogance disturbs you then it is unfortunate. It seems to me that the Bishops arrogance is far greater than clerical arrogance and therefore the root cause for clerical arrogance.
And what Clercial abuse are you talking about, there are thousands of complaints that go to the Bishops about abuse and yet the Bishops are silent, may there is a reason for that; The bishops themselves are culprits, Read: https://mumbailaity.wordpress.com/2011/10/22/women-are-also-victims-of-clergy-sex-abuse/
Maybe to hide their misdeeds you may one day find them making an innocent priest a scapegoat as they are used to doing.
Did you say they are frustrated or sick? Have you got your diagnosis right? May be they are listening to a compulsive diagnostic instrument like you and not the right doctors.
Finally, let me end with a Bible Quote for good health: “Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.” 1 Cor 11:27-32
Inculturation in the Church
I have read the post of Nameeta “Inculturation in the Church” and her advice to spend more time in personal prayer. It sounds meaningful if it is done with a regular and daily Sacraments. Devotion without a proper church teaching (foundation) is like a House build on the Sand, it will never stand for long. Just to prove it recently many devoted, prayerful, charismatic Catholics (including nuns and priests) left the church and joined the “Emperor Emmanuel Dooms Day Cult”. Clergy least bothered about it. This is nothing but devotion without a foundation and vision.
“It is an act of charity to cry out against the wolf when he is among the sheep, wherever he is.” St. Francis de Sales
“Not to oppose error is to approve it; and not to defend truth is to suppress it.” Pope St. Felix III
Every baptised catholic is a missionary. It is a right and duty of a Baptised catholic to protect the church as well as faith from the wolf both from the inside as well as from outside. Wolfs within the community are very dangerous. If you are really a genuine Catholic then raise a prophetic voice against them, protect the church and its teachings. It is not at all a freedom of expression but the standing for the truth for the Church.
Whatever happening in India is not Incultaration but Hinduisation. Histories of NBCLC (including court decision) and Shantivanam are the few examples. There were similar voices during 1980-1985, but because of improper communication network like telephones, mobile, internet the voice is not reached to every Catholics in India.
Do you want so called faithful Catholic should spend time in prayer when abuses like “REFUSAL OF COMMUNION TO A PERSON WHO KNEELS” spreading in our churches. Do you know what Vatican says about this? Vatican considers it as a grave offence. As per the Church norm Communion should be taken kneeling and on the Tongue.
I am really glad that Mumbai Laity raised a voice against Liturgical abuses as well as new age occult practices in the Church. I have not yet verified their news. If the posted news on the blog is true, then it is a grave offence against our faith and it is a duty of an every true catholic to raise a voice against it.
Francis S. Lobo
Hi,
I am not a nun or religious or priest and I definitely don’t think they are the ‘chosen ones’ !
In fact I have been sincerely appreciating how the Laity in Mumbai are waking up to the call to holiness and equality of dignity which all the baptised share in Christ. I felt hurt that you see me as your enemy. Had you really read what I have written, you would not have passed such a judgement. I have enough evidence to prove how much I have always wanted to encourage the vocation of the Laity.
I am aware of most of the issues mentioned in your comments regarding corruption in the administration of the Catholic Church and have been happy that there are groups in Mumbai emerging to challenge the rot in the system. I see where your anger comes from . Even I feel very very angry but I try to continue praying to Jesus to give me courage to speak up and also to forgive as He Himself has taught us .
“You have heard that it was said: An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.
39 But I tell you this: do not oppose evil with evil; if someone slaps you on your right cheek, turn and offer the other.
40 If someone sues you in court for your shirt, give your coat as well.
41 If someone forces you to go one mile, go also the second mile.
42 Give when asked and do not turn your back on anyone who wants to borrow from you.
43 You have heard that it was said: Love your neighbor and do not do good to your enemy.
44 But this I tell you: Love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you,
45 so that you may be children of your Father in Heaven. For he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good, and he gives rain to both the just and the unjust.
46 If you love those who love you, what is special about that? Do not even tax collectors do as much?
47 And if you are friendly only to your friends, what is so exceptional about that? Do not even the pagans do as much?” Mt 5 : 38-47
I shall be very very happy to have a public debate which we can record . This debate can be arranged with the hierarchy, clergy, religious and laity on one side and I and Jesus Christ who is my Everything on the other side . I don’t have anybody else to protect and defend me in the church or the world . I was recently thinking of contacting the Association of Concerned Catholics to support me in resolving the issues I have been facing alone in my building and also some personal issue regarding which I have not received any justice from the hierarchy. But now that you all see me as your enemy , I am open to a public debate.
But be prepared to answer just one question. “ What is the difference between you hierarchy , clergy, religious, laity in the catholic church and people of other religions ??”
We can also publicize this debate. And they’ll know we are Christians by our love. Pray for me because now even I think I still need to be converted !
You must be confused why I am neither clergy nor religious nor laity . Even I don’t know. I have been asking this question through letters to the Cardinals and Bishops since several years but till today I have not got an answer to this . Maybe you can get the answer for me when you go to make arrangements for the debate.
Your enemy in Christ ,
Nameeta
Nameeta,
Its hard to understand you. You say you would like to meet.Please let us have your correct name, tel contact, postal address . You have written that you were thinking of asking the AOCC to support you so please do come . We are a professional, progressive and determined group of comitted catholics that have dedicated ourselves to clean the house of Jesus of all the alleged rot that and mess that holds in the administration. If you mean business, we will support.
Hello,
I have been reading all.Can I ask you Nameeta, are you being used by someone to shoot the gun off your shoulders.It appears that you advocate for someone, who will dump you once their job is done.
Today the church administration is full of scams, where finance, assets and property goes and all this happens before Jesus Christ and His Blessed Mother. Did you read the post where it is said that the jewels of the Blessed Mother went missing.
What enemy, debate, anger ???
Christianity is not emotionalism. It is pure Truth spoken in Love. Caritas in Veritate.
It is to follow the Authentic voice of the Successor of St. Peter.
What we need to ensure as laity is to align our weak voices to this authentic voice to sucessfully root out evil in the Church .
We need to be aware that this Authentic Voice is muffled, twisted, corrupted and muted by his very own. Once again Judas betrays the Master with a kiss.
Here lies the real issue and not about getting diverted into silly debates and empty sentimentalism.
to be in anger is to be like ‘Peter’ who cut the servant’s ear.
to be an enemy is to be like Judas who sold the Master
to debate is like the Trial of Jesus once again
To follow the bloody footprints of Christ is to suffer all the abuses, errors, corruption inflicted on His Body which is His Church.
Let us embrace this Cross (the passion of the Church) and follow Christ our Crucified King!
This post was the most interesting,both sides of the story are printed,not like the examiner which never publishes our letters.Thankyou nameeta for contributing and all the others who responded with good arguments,i think a debate between the clergy and the laity would be excellent .one debate was done in mangalore by the jesuits—-come on clergy accept the challenge,dont be cowards?
Yes, I have given the clergy including Our Dear Cardinal a open invitation to have a joint press conference on all alleged mismanagement within the administration of the catholic church at the Archdiocese of Bombay, We could have a equally balanced team I only hope against hope that Our Dear Cardinal will accept my invitation.Of Course it goes without saying that this open debate will be under the glare of the electronic and print media.
We can discuss all issues finance,assets,property,nepotism, sexual, with live, and actual case studies.
I hope the Archbishops house is reading, and can stand up and accept my open invitation.
This may be able to clear all issues being swept under the carpet for a long long time.I have in fact received verbal support from some clergy members also, who believe the truth must prevail.
I am waiting for the acceptance.
Thanks
Also ask the dear Cardinal how his arch diocese promotes new age practices like YOGA, Interplay and other newage\occult practices. Please record this one too. We want to know from him.
Thanks for the comments. I personally have deep admiration for the wisdom of our dear Pope Benedict and can see that he is often misunderstood. Nowadays there is a lot of tension in the Church due to various interpretations of the Second Vatican Council . It is painful to see the divisions this is causing even in discussions on a blog like this. Some of the issues seem connected to the ideals of Society of St. Pius X or the followers of Marcel Lefebvre who are not in full communion yet with the catholic church. They are posting comments or posts on this blog sometimes and perhaps the team of AOCC is not aware of this.
Regarding suspicions that I am speaking as a mouthpiece of the hierarchy or priests, you can rest assured I have a mind and conscience of my own . I like to see things from a balanced perspective , seeing both the positive and negative aspects before forming an opinion . Just as I voice my opinion regarding the hierarchy and clergy, I also point the positive and negative of Mumbailaity and AOCC . My loyalty is towards Jesus Christ and the Pope and not towards a particular category of people in the church. I also believe that every human person should be respected on a public forum . Most catholic blogs have certain criteria for making comments.
“To follow the bloody footprints of Christ is to suffer all the abuses, errors, corruption inflicted on His Body which is His Church.
Let us embrace this Cross (the passion of the Church) and follow Christ our Crucified King!”
How often this above statement seems true. I actually wept for hours this evening while I imagined Jesus’ suffering at the divisions in our church . I think all of us contribute to it in some way when we start thinking we are the only saviours of our church and point fingers at each other. I was really ashamed to recall how much I have drifted away from the ideals of the beginning of my own faith experience with Jesus several years ago. Your comments must have hurt me but they also reminded me of my own need to be re-converted to Jesus.Thanks !
Yes, I still need help regarding the problems in my building . I have actually been planning to move out of this diocese due to the severity of problems from all sides. I shall be out for a few days . When I return , if I’ve overcome my emotional baggage, I’ll contact you for support. Thanks and please pray for me.
I have invited the Archbishops house to accept my invitation to a open debates on all soul searching matters involving the administration of the catholic Church at Bombay. This is a ongoing process at Mangalore (as a example). If there is nothing to hide, why worry. I hope my invitation would be accepted. There could be a equally balanced team. Of course this would be under the glare of the electronic and print media. Matters could include finance, assets, properites, sexual matters. May be even ask alleged accused clergy to do a dna blood test to prove he have not fathered a child from a nun. I am awaiting the acceptance.If however you could encouage the administration to take up the challange, please do so.
I hope you have realised the issue is against the administration and NOT the religion.
Dear Friend in Christ , you have no clue about the opponent that you are trying to challenge.
I hope you have done your homework!
There are many issues that need to be addressed but you need to understand their mindset. Here it is :
They have abandoned the True Faith long ago. What they are dishing out is a Counterfeit Faith. A “happy go lucky” movement . Their exclusive concern is to make “this World a better place” for the Church for them has been a failure to do it for 2000 years.
They have undertaken an Utopian task to create a false illusory world without any pain and suffering which even Christ did not come to do it. Instead He came to accept suffering to transform it.
They have echoed the concern of Judas that the Poor need to be considered before God be given His due adoration or even replace it.
They will play their Trump Card by showing all the Social work done in the Church to gain public approval, Ecclesiastical respect and personal pride.
But the question is whose money have they used to finance this work?
They will place false rivals: Doctrine vs Pastoral; Sacred vs Social; Sacraments vs Social Justice; Body vs Soul; Salvation vs liberation; Grace vs Poor and so on.
In other words you are facing the fore-shadowing of “The Anti-Christ”! The Diabolic who tries to divide everything. Disunity is his hallmark.
They will be looking for some loopholes in arguments to create a false case and then get the majority to back them up. They have allured many lay folk to actually support their open rebellion. Take for instance The Extraordinary minister for Holy Communion has conveniently become an Ordinary minister in practice!
who really cares what the Universal Church says?
They will never relent as the Pharisees never did. Only a few Pharisees actually converted at the time of Jesus and so it will be the same.
They have grown old in their rebellion against true authority and are in subtle disobedience for decades.
They have maintained the outer appearance of Religion but deny its power (2 Tim 3:5)
They preach a Dead Christ who is as good as any important historical figure , a social reformer at the most- Whose mother could not be a virgin!
But they are not beyond redemption nor all are infected. They need our urgent prayers before any action is taken.
One final advice from St. Paul:
“A slave of the Lord should not quarrel, but should be gentle with everyone, able to teach, tolerant, correcting opponents with kindness. it may be that God will grant them repentance that leads to knowledge of the truth, and that they may return to their senses out of the devil’s snare, where they are entrapped by him, for his will.” (2 Tim 2:24-26)
P.S. i.e. If they think that the Devil exists!!!
There is nothing to worry or be afraid of.As long as you are standing up for Jesus, His mother and saving His property for thieves and cheats He will protect you. Remember the statue of Jesus with no hands.he says” I have no hands, you are my hands”. Never worry when you speak or stand up for the truth and for Justice.There are commens that we need to hear both sides, Of course we must, it is with this reason in mind that I have on many occasions sent a open invitation to our ‘Dharma Sevaks” to have a press conference under the glare of the print and electronic media, they have always shyed away from this, as they know the cat will out of the bag and skeletons will tumble in hundreds from the cupboards.I once again ask them to accept my invitation.We have documented issues where we have evidence, a healthy open debate for all to hear and see would correct the course of this river.The laity are tired, yet due to our catholic upbringing do not wish to question and ask the administration of the catholic church for accountability.The time has now come to change this and to stand up,and walk against the flow.Its a difficult path to take which only the brave will dare. Thanks
Dont be a quitter. Stand up and fight for Jesus as you have earlier mentioned, dont quit. People with weak minds do that, dont be influenced by simple people who dont understand and are church mice who prefer to hide under the cassocks of the clergy for their own personal benefits and just keep saying “Yes father” ‘Yes father”.
Remember the day of your judgement when you will asked why you did not stand up for Him when you knew His own were stealing from His home. I dont know what will they say.
Ask the Archbishops House if you know them to accept the invitation to a open debate, you will find your answers from their feedback.
Thanks
thankyou nametta it was nice to read your comments though others may not agree,but we live in a democracy and we need to hear both sides of the story without offending Jesus and his mother,but the best part of this blog is that we hear everyone,till today I have never read one article or letter which was critical of the clergy
It was interesting to see the intellectual contest between an adult who received the gift of faith and some who apparently were baptised into the faith by their parent and were “brought up in the law of Christ”. The former followed up one the gift by developing her faith beliefs and being a sign of them in the institution that helps her. The latter have adapted the criteria of the world to evaluate the institution and would reform it to fit their concepts – their development efforts have been directed to the institution members, not their faith.
Their views say much for the quality of support the intuition gives to their faithful. It says a lot about the “faithful” who would shape the faith to suit their world ignoring St John’s pithy advice “to be in the world but not of the world”.
The ecclesiastics of the Church in India have much to answer for in regard to their failure to meet the needs of the faithful in the twentieth and twenty-first centuries. Those who would reform the Church, specially the ecclesiastics who have been trained to teach the faithful, they might do well to interpret the admonishment “He who has an ear, let him hear” as He who can read, let him read” The truth has to be sought and is not likely to strike them like a bolt from heaven.