Catholic Bishop Thomas Dabre Obstinately Misrepresents Church Teachings

Catholic Bishop Thomas Dabre Obstinately Misrepresents Church Teachings- Fr. Conrad Saldanha

(As appearing on Facebook) Bishop Thomas Dabre

22nd,June,2015 CHURCH POSITION ON YOGA

Dear friends,

(My comments are in red against Bp. Dabre’s explanations)

My article that was put up on World Yoga day, on my blogsite, and other social media network was widely disseminated and much appreciated by many. Some who opposed it said that they disciples of some yogi priests they argued with heretical arguments and misinterpretation of scriptures and church teachings. But the worst was yet to come, like a shocker, from none other than a Bishop who was formerly in charge of the CBCI doctrinal commission and who in seeking to present the correct Church position on Yoga confused and even was leading astray the gullible. Some, including the AOCC, sent me this article and other such heretical postings in the social media page of the same Bishop. In my rebuttal below you can see for yourself how the Catholic Church teachings are audaciously misrepresented by him and this is not the first time that he has done this. Unfortunately, it has been going on in the social media for some time.

Bishop Thomas Dabre of the diocese of Pune has now ascended a new height of distortion and deception in what apparently seem to be through his yogic powers and practices to openly falsify the Catholic faith to ordinary people. One of the exposures on a popular blog site mentioned below clearly shows him leading the Archbishop of Goa on a wild goose chase. With the elapse of time he has become bolder, perhaps through the psychic powers of yoga to deceive gullible Catholics into believing what apparently seems to be “CHURCH POSITION ON YOGA” https://www.facebook.com/bishopthomas.dabre/posts/1789631837929982?fref=nf&pnref=story

Bp. Thomas Dabre, Bishop of Poona, and a former member of the CBCI Doctrinal commission, I greatly appreciate your initiative in seeking to answer your facebook friends on the subject while a matter of your controversial answer, on the same subject, to Archbishop of Philip Neri of Goa, surgically analyzed and exposed by the great apologist of India, Michael Prabhu on his blog site, stands ignored by you. Alas for your concern for the truth! http://ephesians511blog.com/2013/11/16/is-most-rev-thomas-dabre-former-chairmandoctrinal-commission-a-proponent-of-yoga/

There are other exposes of yours too on the same blogsite, and it puts your doctrinal capabilities in a very bad light and hence you should stop all such reflections with immediate effect.

Yesterday, Yoga Day was celebrated both in India and in other parts of the world. It has raised awareness regarding the Indian tradition of yoga. Some of my face book friends have asked about the Vatican position on yoga and so I shall be sending a few messages on the issue of yoga and Surya Namaskar.

Please be specific, unless you are communicating to us that India is synonymous with Hinduism; therefore what you are communicating, when you say, “Indian tradition of yoga, should be respected. Or maybe the confusion in your harmonious mind, post yoga, is no confusion for you!?!

The text of the Vatican document does not mention yoga nor does it out of hand reject, condemn or ban it. (VATICAN DOCUMENT “ORATIONIS FORMAS”)

If you had not ignored Michael Prabhu’s article then you wouldn’t have sought to deceive ignorant flocks, who look up to you.

You appear right but any child versed in the basics will tell you that though the Vatican document Orationis Formas does not mention yoga in specific but the language of the document clearly and in no uncertain terms refers to Yoga and other eastern practices.

Further, the document itself clearly and in no ambiguous language asserts that in the footnotes No. 1: “The expression “eastern methods” is used to refer to methods which are inspired by Hinduism and Buddhism, such as “Zen,” “Transcendental Meditation” or “Yoga.””

Why then does the Bishop of Pune stoop to such levels of misrepresenting an important document in the name of presenting the Church position on Yoga and that too repetitively? Could be that he himself has been a promoter and practitioner of it to keep himself fit and trim and gain the psychic powers of doublespeak, as done by most Yogis’ in the Catholic church. Outsiders and their doublespeak if any don’t interest me.

Surely, it seems to nurture the selfish ambition of popularity and power at the cost of truth. And do you not come across as a good Bishop when you deceptively speak of universal brotherhood and unity in deceit at the cost of truth and Catholic faith.

As you can see the following from the Vatican Documents are relevant to the issue of yoga.

The majority of the great religions which have sought union with God in prayer have also pointed out ways to achieve it. ‘’the Catholic Church rejects nothing of what is true and holy in these religions’’.

Bp. Dabre you know how to further misrepresent by taking things out of context, let me quote to you from the same document what follows after this quote of yours from Orationis Formas, from the same para 16: “On the contrary, one can take from them what is useful so long as the Christian conception of prayer, its logic and requirements are never obscured”

And you already seem to be obscuring ipso facto your presentation here is proof; hence incapable of even touching this subject!

Leave aside the concept of prayer you are even obscuring sound doctrine, as is done by most yogis like you in the Catholic Church.

Human experience shows that the position and demeanour of the body also have their influence on the recollection and dispositions of the spirit. This is a fact to which some eastern and western Christian spiritual writers have directed their attention.

It is also a fact that for a Christian the position and demeanor of the body is NOT a prerequisite and thus is never an issue for prayer. A Christian can even lie down and pray or labor and pray, etc. (cfr. Jn. 4:23-24, also OF: 28:2). They also take recourse to a position for a reason far different than a non-Christian. Since it is never an issue for a Christian, then to encourage him, apart from the public or communitarian worship, to get into bodily positions and disposition, especially into that whose root and origins are clear, leads to a definite suspicion as to the motives behind the practitioners and as to their commitment to the flock of Christ.

(But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for such the Father seeks to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” John 4:23-24)

In prayer it is the whole man who must enter into relation with God, and so his body should also take up the position most suited to recollection. In some aspects, Christians are today becoming more conscious of how one’s bodily posture can aid prayer.

So, does this mean that one should take up a yogic posture? Are there not enough postures already in existence in Christian circles from which Christians have taken enough benefit from?

The genuine practices of meditation which come from the great non-Christian religions, which prove attractive to the man of today who is divided and disoriented, can constitute a suitable means of helping the person to come before God with an interior peace, even in the midst of external pressures.

Why dear Bishop Thomas Dabre have you chosen to quote partly and that too by getting rid of certain words from the quote. Why are you so intent on leading the flock astray like an imposter in Shepherds clothing?

Here below is the complete quote from the Document with what you have missed out as highlighted in RED. Before I do that let me assert: That

1) Quoting in part

2) Omitting certain important words from the quote; GRAVE misrepresentation of facts

* Suits your insidious agenda to lead the flock astray; the specialty of a Catholic Yogi

That does not mean that genuine practices of meditation which come from the Christian East and from the great non-Christian religions, which prove attractive to the man of today who is divided and disoriented, cannot constitute a suitable means of helping the person who prays to come before God with an interior peace, even in the midst of external pressures.It should, however, be remembered that habitual union with God, namely that attitude of interior vigilance and appeal to the divine assistance which in the New Testament is called “continuous prayer,”34 is not necessarily interrupted when one devotes oneself also, according to the will of God, to work and to the care ofone’s neighbor. “So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God,” the Apostle tells us (1 Cor 10:31). In fact, genuine prayer, as the great spiritual masters teach, stirs up in the person who prays an ardent charity which moves him to collaborate in the mission of the Church and to serve his brothers for the greater glory of God.” (Orationis Formas 28:2)

It would have been also nice while deceptively quoting half information from a Church document and by misrepresenting facts and while seeking to catechize the flock to whom you have committed to do so faithfully, you would have also explained what is that “genuine practices of meditation which comes from the non-Christian religion” and are beneficial to a Christian.

But I am glad you didn’t because that would amount to another grave error.

Such grave errors and lies are rampant expressions of Bishops!

Instead you could highlight the positive elements of prayer and how to pray the Christian way, which the documents mention and about which many of our Christians are not aware of.

Those who are interested in obtaining the whole document can do so by advising me of their email id.

Wow! Such a request will definitely give your attempts at deceitful indoctrination a sense of legitimacy. And which documents Yogi Maharaji Thomas Dabre? Why have you ignored the other pertinent document of the church; viz. Jesus Christ the bearer of the water of life. Is it also not a Vatican document too which is clearer on the subject?

Is not your action a selective picking and choose in order to suit your insidious agenda?

My reflection on this topic will continue.

Should you continue to deceive, dear Bishop Thomas and create more confusion? And you have proved me right by do so in your subsequent posting on your timeline on facebook.

As for the simple laity, I say: At least by their fruit know what manner of tree it is.

Fr. Conrad Saldanha

About The Voice Of Bombay's Catholic Laity

Bombay Laity Ezekiel’s Chapter 3 Task as Watchman 17 “Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the people of Israel; so hear the word I speak and give them warning from me. 18 When I say to a wicked person, ‘You will surely die,’ and you do not warn them or speak out to dissuade them from their evil ways in order to save their life, that wicked person will die for[b] their sin, and I will hold you accountable for their blood. 19 But if you do warn the wicked person and they do not turn from their wickedness or from their evil ways, they will die for their sin; but you will have saved yourself.
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10 Responses to Catholic Bishop Thomas Dabre Obstinately Misrepresents Church Teachings

  1. John Menezes says:

    Till the time he was in the Bombay Seminary he was Thomas D’Abreo, now inculturated to Dabre.

  2. Dindi Aneco says:

    Very strangely people who supported ‘freedom of religion’ enshrined in our constitution are opposing the right of laity to pursue a physical exercise called yoga.
    Oh I forgot that Israel is our holy land and Israelite and roman traditions are ours. Yoga and Sanskrit are heretic!

  3. Was introduced to Dabre here in Lonavla when he was invited as Chief Guest for a parish function — stuck his ” RINGED ” hand in front with the hope I would reverently bow and kiss it — was rather horrified when I just shook his hand — my face reading of the guy is that he seems to be on some ” CLOUD ”
    Is he really the ” BISHOP ” of Pune ???? or is the old fellow, supposedly put out to pasture ( by his own admission on his facebook page ) STILL IN CHARGE ???? therefore to get some attention Dabre must make some ridiculous utterances !!!!!
    What Pope Francis is trying to do, as a sort of renewal / reformation is being RUINED by all these so called intelligentsia — I really wish they could just be ” SHEPHERDS ” and not lead the sheep astray !!!!

  4. some how and for reasons best know to the catholic church the administration at the AB house and the Arch Bishop Oswald cardinal Gracias is silent and has not given the laity a clear cut catholic view on this issue.
    There could be just two reasons.
    1) The church is totally lost and like a ship with out a rudder
    2) They are playing political games, to gain favour from the Govt.
    Those confused are the people of god.It is therefore no wonder that many catholics are leaving the church to join other religious groups who are more straightforward and open.
    I hope oswald cardinal Gracias and his bishops remember that they are accountable to The Lord on these issues on the day of their judgement.

  5. Pingback: Catholic Bishop Thomas Dabre Obstinately Misrepresents Church Teachings | Christian Reforms

  6. John Menezes says:

    Ordination rites have been drastically revised w.e.f. 6/4/1969 to meet the tenets of the Vatican II New Church and New Religion. For instance, in the new rite for priests, every prayer in the traditional rite which stated specifically the essential role of a priest as a man ordained to offer propitiatory sacrifice for the living and the dead has been removed. In most cases these were the precise prayers removed by the Protestant Reformers or, if not precisely the same, there are clear parallels. In the the revised rite for bishops, the new form does not unequivocally signify the power of the episcopacy. There is not one unambiguous statement about the intended sacramental effect of Episcopal Consecration that can be found, as in the old immemorial rite which had derived from the Leonine Sacramentary. So it is doubtful whether Dabre is at all a Catholic bishop. These revised rites came in unannounced and the innocent faithful are quite unaware of them.

  7. I am still waiting for Big Boss Oswald cardinal Gracias to respond. Hope he will, as we catholics need to know what is correct.

  8. Pingback: Bishop’s Sin of Apostasy: In India | Heresy and Apostasy

  9. Vincent Bagul says:

    There are some nun advocates working in Pune Diocese, claiming to be working for women empowerment. In a matrimonial dispute, when the Diocesan Tribunal gives judgment in favour of the groom, these nun advocates side with the bride, misuse the law and harass the groom and his parents in Civil Court by filing false cases. When the Bishop is apprised of the facts, he conveniently expresses helplessness before the nuns. Very cunning and shameful…

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